as for Estonia being able to influence world media…mmmm

and its Russia doing the attacking here. wake up man, you are a bright guy, I know but if you can’t see what’s really happening then I don’t have much to add. Fire your parting shot or lets take it offline.

I’ve never said I agreed with what Russia did after they occupied Estonia and other former USSR countries. It was wrong. But what does Estonia want here - reparations?

Maybe that will come in time but anyone who understands Russians knows that isn’t going to come through confrontation and public attack through the world’s media.

In terms of reporting, it seems fairly free here actually. There have been several investigation reports into ’sensitive’ issues. Plus we have News24 (BBC UK) on the national channel until 10 am each morning. I keep seeing Western press refer to the ‘news clampdown’. One person even told me he had heard Russia turned off BBC World Service over the Litvenenko case. Complete rubbish.

On the other side, I’ve seen stories censored or dropped on Western stations, especially in regard to Iraq. So it doesn’t seem to be a one way street.

The media is pro-Putin but then again so are 90% of the demographic here. Some how the Western media feel frustrated there isn’t more anti-Putin material floating about - are they really that surprised?.

What worries me are the forces at work which are trying to unsettle the world situation. To make Putin feel that he has to turn aside the constitution and stand for another term. That would really put a wedge in the relations between Russia and the EU.

Yes we studied that in history at school. As that Wiki page shows there are historians who believe it was designed to buy Stalin time, as he was getting increasingly isolated by the Western powers. Before this pact Stalin had tried to get them involved against Hitler with no success. I seem to remember this fitting what I learned at school but it was some time ago!

Although I’m incredibly hesitant to get ‘facts’ from the Wikipedia, that section may have been written by a 23yr old college drop out claiming to be a university professor

>I have not seen any evidence of payments personally but thats the rumour

Yes that’s always my problem with these disputes involving Russia and the EU, it is so often just based on rumours. I tend to get a very wide spectrum of news sources being on the internet and there often seems a biased towards Russia that is undeserved.

I always stop and ask myself - would it be in Russia’s interest to do this? Take the case of Litvenenko or Anna Politkovskaya. To often the answer is a resounding no. I do think there are forces in the Western media which try very hard to paint Russia in a bad light. To be fair, sometimes blunt Russian diplomacy doesn’t help the situation but there are definitely people at work to discredit them. Russia wants to place themselves as reliable energy suppliers to Europe and that is a far greater prize than the movement of a monument.

What you see in their reaction is the usual Russian (nationalistic) pride coming through but I’m pretty certain their true agenda is peaceful relations with the EU. It’s simply too damaging economically to pursue other channels.

To be honest, it wouldn’t surprise me if Berezovsky or others were involved in this somewhere. Either in the decision the Estonian officials took in moving the monument, the timing or in payment to the rioters. This whole episode plays out perfectly to the world media, to place Russia in the limelight again as the untrustworthy aggressor. Exactly the position Berezovsky and others want it to be in.

Call a spade a spade. Estonia was occupied for decades and thousand were killed etc. Nick, surely you don’t excuse that do you?

Yep the timing sucked but still, since when did that warrant the level of attack by one state on another that we have seen.

I think the point is that Estonia is being singled out here. Russia demolishes its own monuments (read some of the posts and links here) and if a fuss is kicked up (rare) in Russia then you can guess how its dealt with (probably not that well reported inside Russia?)
Russia accepts little (no) interference from outside about domestic affairs so why should Estonia?

I have not seen any evidence of payments personally but thats the rumour. I too would like to see evidence but I doubt they kept receipts and tax records if it did happen.

Speaking to my Russian friends here, they don’t understand the hostility towards statues celebrating the victory over the Nazis. I can see it from your POV as well, the ensuing occupation was not much better but the actions of those soldiers who died fighting the Nazis were brave. It seems unfair to lump them in with the political state that followed.

Saying all that though I have no time for these hooligans besieging the Estonian embassy. I’m intrigued you have evidence of their payment though Robin? Would you like to share more details on that?

“I am referring to those who lay siege to an embassy, vandalise grocery stores, chase after Georgian wine and then Estonian cheese — this feckless gang of hooligans who desecrate gravestones with paint, and earn their living through feuds, hatred and guns,” writes Ulitskaja, who was due to meet her readers this May in Tartu and Narva, but, according to the Estonian paper Postimees, was unable to secure a visa due to the blockade at the Estonian Embassy.

“We all want to work and earn money for a living, and be able to raise our children in a humane environment — not under the threat of war and terror.”

“Estonians are not obliged to celebrate a regime that forcibly introduced collectivisation and industrialisation, and repressed their people. This also applies to our soldier, a liberator whom they are not obliged to venerate. Yet, you guys demand this respect from another nation when you have yet to learn how to respect your own dead in their graves!”